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Discussion Forums => Visual Novels => Topic started by: Dys on July 12, 2011, 09:37:50 am

Title: VN: Anime Versions - The VN Was Better
Post by: Dys on July 12, 2011, 09:37:50 am
Same basis as the manga version of the topic.

More recently the trend in anime has been toward making anime versions of visual novels.

There are some classic and universally lauded examples such as many of the works by Key/Kyoto Animation.

There are also some examples of great failures, such as the MADHOUSE adaption of the Nitro+ VN, ChäoS;HEAd.

Of course, visual novels DO include the subgenre of eroge. Two out of three KyoAni Key adaptions were originally eroge. There have been a number of eroge adaptions too.

What are your thoughts on the subject? What are other examples of visual novels that received animated versions? Is it a blasphemous act to even try to adapt eroge/VN's?
Title: Re: VN: Anime Versions - The VN Was Better
Post by: AzureHakua on July 14, 2011, 12:16:33 am
I think some VNs are adapted really well, some really suck though lol.

One of my favorite VNs is Umineko, and I absolutely love it. The anime sort of sucks in comparison in my opinion. Sure, there are people who like it without ever playing the VN, but I honestly feel that the VN was exponentially better, and I can understand why Umineko (The anime) has tons of haters. Although... I don't really appreciate people who compare Higurashi and Umineko as I feel they are separate independent stories.
Title: Re: VN: Anime Versions - The VN Was Better
Post by: Krozam on July 21, 2011, 02:58:23 am
Personally I love the Umineko anime, but I'm still getting started with the VN's. The terrible art is killing my motivation, since the anime has such superb art. I still intend to read the VN's some day, don't worry.

My major complaint is about the Fortune Arterial anime. It's watchable, I think I rated it 2.5/5, but compared to the fantastic VN it's quite poor. I enjoyed the VN a helluva lot more even though I had to use translators to read it. One route could have been fit into 12 eps by a good director, but they included a lot of stuff from various routes, so I think it should've been 24 eps. Even then I don't think this director could've pulled it off well enough to be worthy of the original material, but I'm sure it would've been much better than now.
Title: Re: VN: Anime Versions - The VN Was Better
Post by: TheThing on August 16, 2011, 02:51:21 pm
One word: Tsukihime.

Another thing to note, the Shuffle anime had, in my opinion, really bad art style and graphics. But I still hold it high in regards because it explored and explained many things the VN didn't, like the main character past as well as portraying it accurately (in my opinion).

The Visual Novel was great, but the anime too had it's moments and even some of the jokes were better animated and more portrayed.
Title: Re: VN: Anime Versions - The VN Was Better
Post by: Haxton Fale on August 22, 2011, 08:30:45 am
One word: Tsukihime.
Even though it's a week old post, I have to agree. I have yet to see a worse adaptation than Shingetsutan Tsukihime, which might count as the most wasted 240 minutes of my life. But hey, Carnival Phantasm is out!

And there's also Clannad. I'm currently midway through Nagisa route (still in School Life) but as far as I'm concerned all the other ones were adapted really well. It's also great they made Tomoyo and Kyou chapters as both of them had great stories in their routes.

BTW, why there's nothing about manga adaptations? Shingetsutan Tsukihime manga was actually great and got an incredible last chapter making True End into Good.
Title: Re: VN: Anime Versions - The VN Was Better
Post by: Rokudaime on November 01, 2012, 02:01:13 am
In addition to what others have said, I'd like to add that all of Kyoto Animation's anime adaptations of Key's visual novels are fantastic, and also, the anime adaptation of Aquaplus/Leaf's visual novel, Utawarerumono, is amazing.
Title: Re: VN: Anime Versions - The VN Was Better
Post by: Krozam on November 14, 2012, 08:00:43 am
The other Leaf VN adaptation, Tears to Tiara, is also damn good. Far exceeded my expectations at the start of the series.
Title: Re: VN: Anime Versions - The VN Was Better
Post by: Rokudaime on November 14, 2012, 07:25:28 pm
Krozam, did you know that Aquaplus released a fighting game for the PS3 this year called Aqua Pazza, that has characters from Utawarerumono, Tears to Tiara, To Heart, and others? :D I want to play it!
Title: Re: VN: Anime Versions - The VN Was Better
Post by: Aevumus on November 14, 2012, 09:34:32 pm
As someone well-versed in Visual Novels, I can confidently say that in most circumstances, anime adaptations of a Visual Novel usually pale in comparison to their original source.

Some of the most notable examples being Fate/Stay Night and Umineko. Both of them are actually not that bad on their own, but when you compare them to their origins they essentially fall flat on their faces. The main issue is that too much information is compressed and the Anime tends to attempt to mash together several elements of the multiple routes, thus leading to an amalgamation of several different stories that often simply don't line up.

The most recent example I can think of would be an Anime/Visual Novel titled Mashiro Iro Symhpony. I went into this with a fairly open mindset, and the first several episodes came off with quite a good premise; that this wasn't going to unsuccessfully slam the multiple story routes together and hope it turns out alright. The first half was fairly focused, had good character development, and then suddenly... All of that vanished. They simply acted like all of the character focus hadn't happened and moved on to another heroine. And then they did it again. Two of the primary heroines weren't even touched on and become nothing more than supporting roles. Seeing all of that potential and character development completely forgotten and wasted was really a letdown from what seemed to be a very promising plot.

Now, having said all of that, not all adaptations are a letdown. Clannad was fairly well done, although having played through the VN I still wholeheartedly believe that the original does a better job portraying the emotions that usually flow with Key works. Steins;Gate was also a very well done and faithful adaptation, and I can easily consider it my favorite anime to date. Unfortunately, a good amount of (albeit minor) content was lost, some of which led a a deeper understanding of the events that transpired during the plot.

I'm almost afraid to find out how Angel Beats! is going to fare in VN form, as it was originally intended as an anime. Granted, Key has yet to let me down so far, so I do have faith.

The point of this rant? None. I just felt like sharing my opinion, albeit a long-winded and essentially pointless one. Thoughts? Responses?
Title: Re: VN: Anime Versions - The VN Was Better
Post by: Rokudaime on November 15, 2012, 12:32:05 am
As someone well-versed in Visual Novels, I can confidently say that in most circumstances, anime adaptations of a Visual Novel usually pale in comparison to their original source.

Some of the most notable examples being Fate/Stay Night and Umineko. Both of them are actually not that bad on their own, but when you compare them to their origins they essentially fall flat on their faces. The main issue is that too much information is compressed and the Anime tends to attempt to mash together several elements of the multiple routes, thus leading to an amalgamation of several different stories that often simply don't line up.

The most recent example I can think of would be an Anime/Visual Novel titled Mashiro Iro Symhpony. I went into this with a fairly open mindset, and the first several episodes came off with quite a good premise; that this wasn't going to unsuccessfully slam the multiple story routes together and hope it turns out alright. The first half was fairly focused, had good character development, and then suddenly... All of that vanished. They simply acted like all of the character focus hadn't happened and moved on to another heroine. And then they did it again. Two of the primary heroines weren't even touched on and become nothing more than supporting roles. Seeing all of that potential and character development completely forgotten and wasted was really a letdown from what seemed to be a very promising plot.

Now, having said all of that, not all adaptations are a letdown. Clannad was fairly well done, although having played through the VN I still wholeheartedly believe that the original does a better job portraying the emotions that usually flow with Key works. Steins;Gate was also a very well done and faithful adaptation, and I can easily consider it my favorite anime to date. Unfortunately, a good amount of (albeit minor) content was lost, some of which led a a deeper understanding of the events that transpired during the plot.

I'm almost afraid to find out how Angel Beats! is going to fare in VN form, as it was originally intended as an anime. Granted, Key has yet to let me down so far, so I do have faith.

The point of this rant? None. I just felt like sharing my opinion, albeit a long-winded and essentially pointless one. Thoughts? Responses?

Well said. That is indeed the case with most adaptations, though there are a few select ones that are very good, such as the examples you mentioned. I would like to mention again though that I think the Utawarerumono anime is a good adaptation of the VN, even though the VN is still far superior. I consider it to be pretty impossible to cram EVERYTHING from a big VN into an anime though, since certain scenes/dialogue don't make the transition into anime all that well. Therefore I don't believe that everything from a VN has to be included in a potential anime version, for that anime to be a good adaptation.

Anyway, imagine how awesome it would be if they made a proper anime series out of the Heaven's Feel route from the Fate/stay night VN, in the same level of quality as that seen in the Fate/Zero anime! :D I seriously doubt that would ever happen, but it's still my dream! <3
Title: Re: VN: Anime Versions - The VN Was Better
Post by: Krozam on November 15, 2012, 05:13:04 pm
Krozam, did you know that Aquaplus released a fighting game for the PS3 this year called Aqua Pazza, that has characters from Utawarerumono, Tears to Tiara, To Heart, and others? :D I want to play it!
No, but I don't care either, because I don't have any consoles. I sometimes play PSX and PS2 games on emulators, but PS3 games are outside my reach.

Aevumus, that is indeed the most common problem with VN and LN adaptations, such as Fortune Arterial and Campione. I shudder at the thought of what would be the result of an Eien no Aselia adaptation (even a series, let alone the actually existing OVA, which I refuse to watch), I couldn't stand watching them crap all over one of my absolute favourite stories. Campione was painful enough, and it's just a good story to me, nowhere near my favourite.
Title: Re: VN: Anime Versions - The VN Was Better
Post by: Aevumus on November 16, 2012, 04:03:26 am
Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that way. I have a habit of thinking 'Maybe this one WON'T be trash' as I lead into any anime that was previously in a VN form (and I am then subsequently let down). I'm much less experienced with Light Novels, although I tend to find my biggest problem is that they start off great and simply aren't continued past a first season due to some creative differences or lack of capital.
Title: Re: VN: Anime Versions - The VN Was Better
Post by: Krozam on November 16, 2012, 07:50:43 pm
True, that is also a problem with light novel adapations, they tend to never be completed. Many of my favourite anime are LN adaptations, so that might even be the bigger problem. I could kill for a second season of Black Blood Brothers or Ookami-san, for example.
Title: Re: VN: Anime Versions - The VN Was Better
Post by: Rokudaime on November 17, 2012, 12:07:45 am
True, that is also a problem with light novel adapations, they tend to never be completed. Many of my favourite anime are LN adaptations, so that might even be the bigger problem. I could kill for a second season of Black Blood Brothers or Ookami-san, for example.

I want them to animate the remaining content from The Suzumiya Haruhi novels. :D
Title: Re: VN: Anime Versions - The VN Was Better
Post by: Tyrantorus on February 19, 2013, 01:23:13 am
Well said. That is indeed the case with most adaptations, though there are a few select ones that are very good, such as the examples you mentioned. I would like to mention again though that I think the Utawarerumono anime is a good adaptation of the VN, even though the VN is still far superior. I consider it to be pretty impossible to cram EVERYTHING from a big VN into an anime though, since certain scenes/dialogue don't make the transition into anime all that well. Therefore I don't believe that everything from a VN has to be included in a potential anime version, for that anime to be a good adaptation.

Anyway, imagine how awesome it would be if they made a proper anime series out of the Heaven's Feel route from the Fate/stay night VN, in the same level of quality as that seen in the Fate/Zero anime! :D I seriously doubt that would ever happen, but it's still my dream! <3

It could happen! I see Fate/Zero stuff all over Akihabara. Maybe they could do a high-quality miniseries for Heaven's Feel...
Title: Re: VN: Anime Versions - The VN Was Better
Post by: Rokudaime on February 19, 2013, 04:26:09 am
Well said. That is indeed the case with most adaptations, though there are a few select ones that are very good, such as the examples you mentioned. I would like to mention again though that I think the Utawarerumono anime is a good adaptation of the VN, even though the VN is still far superior. I consider it to be pretty impossible to cram EVERYTHING from a big VN into an anime though, since certain scenes/dialogue don't make the transition into anime all that well. Therefore I don't believe that everything from a VN has to be included in a potential anime version, for that anime to be a good adaptation.

Anyway, imagine how awesome it would be if they made a proper anime series out of the Heaven's Feel route from the Fate/stay night VN, in the same level of quality as that seen in the Fate/Zero anime! :D I seriously doubt that would ever happen, but it's still my dream! <3

It could happen! I see Fate/Zero stuff all over Akihabara. Maybe they could do a high-quality miniseries for Heaven's Feel...

Well, considering the Fate route got an anime series, and UBW a movie, it would make sense and be fitting to make HF an OVA series. ^^ That said, I think it would be really cool if they made it a movie-series, like they did with Kara no Kyoukai.
Title: Re: VN: Anime Versions - The VN Was Better
Post by: Kiyoyuki_Takeda on April 14, 2013, 02:25:04 pm
First post in this forum...
Hoshizora e Kakaru Hashi - Nuff said: That's the lowest level of work I've ever seen in my 12 years of experience in the Anime and VN realms (even worse than the FA or Akaneiro), so fuming about the series that I actually wrote a extremely detailed walk-through page on the REAL Heroine for the story on a Chinese Forum when the VN Translation (Partial) Patch first came out. No prizes for guessing who that was, and looking at the comments on the post for this anime really convinced my guess was right all along: Nakatsugawa Ui was NEVER the heroine in the first place, and especially speaking from the viewpoint of someone who has actually played the VN it was based on. And this rage keeps burning on till this very day, first time in many years.
Title: Re: VN: Anime Versions - The VN Was Better
Post by: Krozam on April 14, 2013, 05:43:06 pm
I liked Ui. I know many don't agree, but I was happy with Hoshizora, both overall and with the girl who won. It was clichéd as hell, sure, but instead of making me annoyed, it made me nostalgic about all the good romances I've seen/read. Never failed to make me smile. Anyway, she may not have been the main heroine in the VN, but I know for a fact that she has a route, and I don't blame the anime scriptwriter for choosing to follow one of the other routes instead of the main route. VN's are nice that way, they offer you options.
Title: Re: VN: Anime Versions - The VN Was Better
Post by: Kiyoyuki_Takeda on April 15, 2013, 07:17:45 pm
I liked Ui. I know many don't agree, but I was happy with Hoshizora, both overall and with the girl who won. It was clichéd as hell, sure, but instead of making me annoyed, it made me nostalgic about all the good romances I've seen/read. Never failed to make me smile. Anyway, she may not have been the main heroine in the VN, but I know for a fact that she has a route, and I don't blame the anime scriptwriter for choosing to follow one of the other routes instead of the main route. VN's are nice that way, they offer you options.
My hatred for this anime was NEVER on how they chose the heroine, it's more geared towards the storyline buildup to making the choice of heroine (Ui) which is not exactly done in a proper manner that is expected of any Visual Novel that was remade into anime is supposed to be done. Most of the hatred against choosing Ui in the forums that I previously reside in is mostly based on the fact that many of the users there have already played the Hoshizora Visual Novel itself (myself included) prior to watching the anime (Anime was aired nearly 1 year after VN Release in April 2010) and I agree with them on based on three important points:
1. The main important points that focuses on the character Nakatsugawa Ui mostly appears on the common route of the game. The only sole point that focuses on Ui in her own route consists of simply half an episode focusing on the relationship between her and her own married brother who is in Tokyo (that detail wasn't even mentioned in the anime but was a mentioned point within Ui's own route in the VN itself).
2. Plenty of storyline-based screen time was given to other heroines in the story in this order: Madoka Koumoto (around 2.5 episodes, including 2x past recollections + 1 full ep that results in NB + Miko-dance description storyline among other things); Ibuki Hinata (1.5 episodes, 1 full ep with NB + archery scenes which she is revolved upon); Hina Sakai (1.5 episodes, focusing on her trying to say sorry to Kazuma, the leaving-house scenario and tug-of-war against Taizou Sakai (which is Hina's father, not mentioned in anime but mentioned in VN)); Toudou Koyori (1 episode, focuses on Hikonan Race and Keita's recovery, mentioned on VN into Koyori's route); Toudou Tsumugi (0.5 epsiodes, mainly game center scenario); and last of all, Nakatsugawa Ui (0.5 episodes, on the Onii-chan relationship as well as his marriage which made her feel left out).
3a. VN SPOILER ALERT:
(click to show/hide)
3b. VN SPOILER ALERT 2:
(click to show/hide)
In addition:
(click to show/hide)

If the anime was supposed to promote the game of sorts, I can say it has been quite a failure and a spectacular one, even worse than the Akaneiro anime done several years ago, although it may trigger most people who can get access to the VN to get it ASAP to find out the real truth behind the storyline.
Summary: The artwork, as well as the realization of the characters mostly close to the details found in the VN have largely been done doing decent justice to the original work, it's the storyline and the way it was written and played out that dragged it all down. To put it simply, it's just like building a tower without laying the important foundations to make it stand upright, and you know what happens to the tower when anyone does this.
Only Advice: Go get access to the VN itself and play through the whole storyline, and you'll see how the anime has not done the VN or Nakatsugawa Ui any storyline justice in this respect. Or get the manga version if you're lucky enough (there is also an officially-sanctioned manga version on this. 2 Volumes drawn by Kurumi Morisaki).
Title: Re: VN: Anime Versions - The VN Was Better
Post by: Krozam on April 17, 2013, 12:45:01 pm
Eh, while you've made me slightly more interested in the VN, I'm happy enough with the anime, so I don't think I'll be reading the original work. Akane-Iro is a different case, because there the heroine I was interested in didn't get much focus. I intend to read the Akane-Iro VN one of these days.
Title: Re: VN: Anime Versions - The VN Was Better
Post by: Kiyoyuki_Takeda on April 17, 2013, 07:16:00 pm
Eh, while you've made me slightly more interested in the VN, I'm happy enough with the anime, so I don't think I'll be reading the original work. Akane-Iro is a different case, because there the heroine I was interested in didn't get much focus. I intend to read the Akane-Iro VN one of these days.
The ball is in your court on whether to get the Hoshizora VN to read the real story. I myself aggressively pursued the VN Storyline simply because of real worry about the direction the anime storyline is heading, and was in fact proven right about the bad direction it is heading. By the way, Hoshizora VN got a full translation (in Chinese) completed for some time already, and I mostly can understand the VN storyline very well since Chinese is my second language and also self-learnt a little Japanese on the way.
More spoilers (be warned, may cause dropping lower jaws):
(click to show/hide)